Over the hill

This gives some food for thought. Of course, you were quite a bit slower than your true immediate (within a month of training) 800 meter potential, but it still does point out that you are being held back by top end speed. This is a rare problem in runners - most do not get there because they are not sufficiently disciplined in their training.

You could probably benefit from 100 meter strides 2-3 times a week, and maybe even some form of hill training.

Also, something like 5x1600 brisk, see if you can do those at 6:00 pace with full recoveries (jog a lap or even two if needed). The slow 800 meters is definitely related to the lack of anaerobic capabilities, which is reasonable since you've been training aerobically, but it is also likely limited by the nervous system - your body does not yet know how to run fast.

I am really surprised that you did a 2:45. Do you feel like it was an all out effort then? I am not sure I could do a 2:45 myself, but you train faster than me. Hmmm.

There really isn't alot of correlation between an 800 all out and a marathon, so that calculation has to be taken with a bucket of salt.

I agree with Sasha that mile intervals and strides should help (you also did some 1k intervals if I remember correctly and those should be beneficial, perhaps try doing those just under 6min/mile pace (3:45 if I calc right per K?), but remember that anaerobic speed isn't the most important tool in a marathoner's bag.

Your tempos and your mile repeats will tell you alot more about your marathon capabilities than the 800 does, but the 800 does tell something about your speed.

Happy training!

There is one special thing about 800 meter run - you will not run a marathon faster than you run 800 meters. A fast 800 meters does not necessarily predict a fast marathon currently or even with training, but a slow 800 meters puts a cap on how fast you can run a marathon. However, if you can run a fast 800 without anaerobic cheating, it does predict a potential for a fast marathon very very well.

We often think of the 800 meter race as anaerobic, and fast-twitch fiber dominant. It is true that

a) Somebody with fast-twitch fiber dominance and great anaerobic capabilities given the right training for both distances will do relatively better in 800 than in the marathon.

b) In order to do your best in 800 you need to maximize your anaerobic development.

However, we miss some important elements. Consider this - Bekele ran 6x800 in 2:01 without a break when he set the world record in the 5000. Those must have been some fairly aerobic 800s! He can run 60s quarters mostly aerobically! He runs about 67s quarters at threshold, meaning he can do that without a lot of anaerobic-dominant muscle recruitment. What is the difference between him and Ian - why can't Ian do that? Training is only a small portion. People, especially many Western-style scientists just love to talk about genetics, and that belief carries into the general running population. To me "genetics" in this context is a fancy way of saying "I have no clue and I quit". It has an implication of setting low goals and limits for yourself, and doing less than your best. Where exactly is the beast hidden, and how do we get into that cave and kill him?

That is the question I have pondered for years. I have that beast to conquer myself. To define the beast - how do I run 800 meters, or 100 meters faster without increasing the power or degree of recruitment of my fast-twitch fibers? Why this definition? Because the improvements in speed obtained in this manner would carry in perfect proportion to longer distances once the endurance training is optimized. This has critical value - endurance training can only give you the ability to hold your speed, it can only take you that far if there is no natural (or developed) non-fast-twitch dependent speed to begin with.

Right now I am inclined to believe the beast is partially in the body structure, and partially in the nervous system. Some of it may not be possible to change, but some could be improved. Unfortunately, I believe, we have not been trying hard enough. I am yet to see one scientist that would care enough to answer that question.

Thankyou for the comments & analysis. I will incorporate the 100m strides more into the training. The mile intervals are in my training plan but from Jan onwards, Dec is a concentration on threshold workouts but I can mix it up a little.

Sasha - your info on the correlation between the 800 meters and marathon is excellent. This info should be in the forum, it is of value to everyone.

Michelle - this was definately an all out effort though I do find it difficult to psych myself up in training than in a race.